RE: [fluka-discuss]: Re: regarding x-ray beam simulation of dental machines

From: Eleftherios Skordis <eleftherios.skordis_at_cern.ch>
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 09:09:19 +0000

Dear Alex,

It is enough to change it the BEAM card as long as you are not modifying the beam parameters in the source routine.

Glad to see things are progressing.

Kind regards

Lefteris

-----------------------

Eleftherios Skordis
Dep. EN/STI, CERN
CH-1211 GENEVA 23
SWITZERLAND

OFFICE: +41-22-7679541<tel:%2B41-22-7675461>
________________________________
From: Ševčik Aleksandras [aleksandras.sevcik_at_ktu.edu]
Sent: 26 July 2017 00:48
To: Eleftherios Skordis; Mikhail Polkovnikov <Михаил Полковников>; fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org
Subject: Re: [fluka-discuss]: Re: regarding x-ray beam simulation of dental machines


Dear Lefteris, Mikhail,


Thank you very much, it works perfectly. May I ask one more question:

1) the shape of the beam is annular. If I want to make it rectangular, is it enough to change this in BEAM card characteristics, or should I modify the source code too?


I have a voxelised head phantom and want to score effective dose from the simulated spectra in the special regions. I will proceed further with help from Activation/AdvancedActivation slides, and will try to compare the results from simulation with mathematical calculations used by our medical physicists. In case of strong deviation, I may ask for your advice once again,


Alex

________________________________
From: Eleftherios Skordis <eleftherios.skordis_at_cern.ch>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 12:15:48 PM
To: Ševčik Aleksandras; Mikhail Polkovnikov <Михаил Полковников>; fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org
Subject: RE: [fluka-discuss]: Re: regarding x-ray beam simulation of dental machines

Hi Alex,

It could be that there is something missing from the flupix version.
However, until this is properly fixed you can try running the following command in the flupix terminal.


sudo yum install glibc-devel.i686 libgcc.i686 libstdc++-devel.i686 ncurses-devel.i686

In my case it solved the problem.
Hope this helps.

Kind regards

Lefteris


-----------------------

Eleftherios Skordis
Dep. EN/STI, CERN
CH-1211 GENEVA 23
SWITZERLAND

OFFICE: +41-22-7679541<tel:%2B41-22-7675461>
________________________________
From: Ševčik Aleksandras [aleksandras.sevcik_at_ktu.edu]
Sent: 21 July 2017 09:49
To: Mikhail Polkovnikov <Михаил Полковников>; fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org; Eleftherios Skordis
Subject: Re: [fluka-discuss]: Re: regarding x-ray beam simulation of dental machines


Thanks Mikhail, now it is clear that I am doing smth wrong when compiling/running the custom executable, as Eleftherios guessed.


When I try to compile it, I get the error, see attached. What it could be, looks like cannot find smth ? I am running 64bit flupix, and the folder is /home/flupix/New


Alex

________________________________
From: Mikhail Polkovnikov <Михаил Полковников> <pmk_at_ihep.ru>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 7:04:32 AM
To: Ševčik Aleksandras; fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org
Subject: Re: [fluka-discuss]: Re: regarding x-ray beam simulation of dental machines

On 20.07.2017 20:13, Ševčik Aleksandras wrote:

Thank you both for your attention, and special thanks to Mikhail, for your created file which I am using.


I added the proposed line, however, my little experiment still shows strong deviation between exemplary ref spectrum and scored spectrum, see attached files.


I also attach all the input files. Where the problem could be?


A.

________________________________
From: Eleftherios Skordis <eleftherios.skordis_at_cern.ch><mailto:eleftherios.skordis_at_cern.ch>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 10:43:48 AM
To: Ševčik Aleksandras; fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org<mailto:fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org>
Subject: RE: regarding x-ray beam simulation of dental machines

Hi Alex,

Your points 1 and 3 are correct. My guess is you are not using the customised executable when you are running and therefore not generating a multi-energetic beam.

Could you please send us your input and output files so I can help you further.

Kind regards

Lefteris


-----------------------

Eleftherios Skordis
Dep. EN/STI, CERN
CH-1211 GENEVA 23
SWITZERLAND

OFFICE: +41-22-7679541<tel:%2B41-22-7675461>
________________________________
From: owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it<mailto:owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it> [owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it<mailto:owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it>] on behalf of Ševčik Aleksandras [aleksandras.sevcik_at_ktu.edu<mailto:aleksandras.sevcik_at_ktu.edu>]
Sent: 19 July 2017 22:26
To: fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org<mailto:fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org>
Subject: [fluka-discuss]: Re: regarding x-ray beam simulation of dental machines


and hello again, sorry for multiple post, but I thought that it's always better to try a practical example, so here it is: using the attached files and artificially made spectrum.dat for example purposes, I simulated 5x1E6 histories and scored the spectra which does not look similar, maybe anybody could comment what I misunderstand?


Thank you very much,


Alex

________________________________
From: owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it<mailto:owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it> <owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it><mailto:owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it> on behalf of Ševčik Aleksandras <aleksandras.sevcik_at_ktu.edu><mailto:aleksandras.sevcik_at_ktu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 9:02:49 PM
To: fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org<mailto:fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org>
Subject: [fluka-discuss]: Re: regarding x-ray beam simulation of dental machines


Addition: I was able to find the answer to 2nd question, it contains pairs of values of energy in keV and flux in photons per second, so it can be ignored.


A.

________________________________
From: Ševčik Aleksandras
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 7:59:02 PM
To: Vasilis Vlachoudis; fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org<mailto:fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org>
Subject: Re: regarding x-ray beam simulation of dental machines


Thank you very much. I looked all through it, however, it is too complicated for me to pursue it in right way from very beginning without detail step-by-step guidance and clear examples. Therefore I am happy that fluka archive helped me to find the similar case with example I could probably use for my needs. Yet few clarifications are needed:


Attached modified source.f and spectrum source file. Also attached dental x-ray spectra for reference.


1) Do I correctly understand that this source.f file generates polyenergetic photon spectrum, .i.e. such as shown in the attached picture?

2) Could you please help me to understand what exactly is given in spectrum.dat? The first number is just a number of bin, and second - ?

3) Do I understand correctly that in addition I must use BEAM with energy set equal to x-ray used kVp, i.e. maximum energy ?


Thank you very much,

Alex

________________________________
From: Vasilis Vlachoudis <Vasilis.Vlachoudis_at_cern.ch><mailto:Vasilis.Vlachoudis_at_cern.ch>
Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 10:08:55 AM
To: Ševčik Aleksandras; fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org<mailto:fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org>
Subject: RE: regarding x-ray beam simulation of dental machines

Hi Aleksandras,

my guess is that the best way will be to create a custom source.f routine
that you sample directly from the spectrum of your x-ray equipment.

Look the advanced course on how to make a custom source

https://indico.cern.ch/event/489973/contributions/2148893/attachments/1271819/1884943/11_AdvancedSources2016.pdf

Cheers
Vasilis


________________________________
From: owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it<mailto:owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it> [owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it<mailto:owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it>] on behalf of Ševčik Aleksandras [aleksandras.sevcik_at_ktu.edu<mailto:aleksandras.sevcik_at_ktu.edu>]
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 16:19
To: fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org<mailto:fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org>
Subject: [fluka-discuss]: regarding x-ray beam simulation of dental machines





Dear experts,


I am interested in the calculation of effective doses during the dental -xray procedures. Is it possible to generate a beam only of the specific piece of x-ray equipment when manufacturer's parameters are known, or should one model all the internal components of the machine i.e. the whole x-ray generation process in order to have valid results?


Sorry if this question too obvious. In addition, I would appreciate any links/comments/references that would help me in pursue of this matter,


Regards

Aleksandras

Dear Alex,


It looks like you didn't compile a source.f routine and didn't run the modified FLUKA executive file with the modified source routine (see FM.pdf, Chapter 13, User routines). That is why your simulation uses only monoenergetic value from the BEAM card!


There is no need to use OPEN card in an input file, when you open file for reading in source.f (OAUXFI or OPEN calls).


Just use either

1) OAUXFI call in source.f and disable OPEN card

or

2) OPEN card and do not open file for reading in source.f once again.


I prefer first approach nowadays.


As a result your scored spectrum should be OK.



Best regards,

Mikhail

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Received on Wed Jul 26 2017 - 12:08:23 CEST

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