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From: Ferreira De Almeida Lourenco, Ana <am.lourenco_at_ucl.ac.uk>

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 15:36:16 +0000

Ola' Thiago,

Thank you very much for this. I will have a look into the files.

Best wishes,

Ana

________________________________________

De: Viana Miranda Lima, Thiago

Enviado: 1 de fevereiro de 2016 13:42

Para: Ferreira De Almeida Lourenco, Ana; Bouchard Hugo; paola.sala_at_mi.infn.it

Cc: fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org

Assunto: Re: [fluka-discuss]: Simulate Fano theorem in Fluka

Sorry I forgot to say, not only the presentation on the Wed but there are

also some other presentations about specific scenarios that may be useful.

Best wishes

Thiago

On 01/02/2016, 12:00, "owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it on behalf of

Ferreira De Almeida Lourenco, Ana" <owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it on

behalf of am.lourenco_at_ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

*>Dear Paola and Hugo,
*

*>
*

*>Thank you very much for your e-mails!
*

*>
*

*>Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with writing routines. Since CYLI-VOL
*

*>gives a spatially uniform distribution in volume and I need an uniform
*

*>source by mass, could you please give me some advice how I should do
*

*>this? Any examples that you could provide would be greatly appreciated!
*

*>
*

*>Many thanks,
*

*>Ana
*

*>________________________________________
*

*>De: Paola Sala <paola.sala_at_mi.infn.it>
*

*>Enviado: 31 de janeiro de 2016 11:58
*

*>Para: Bouchard Hugo
*

*>Cc: paola.sala_at_mi.infn.it; Ferreira De Almeida Lourenco, Ana;
*

*>fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org
*

*>Assunto: Re: [fluka-discuss]: Simulate Fano theorem in Fluka
*

*>
*

*>Dear Hugo, Ana,
*

*>thank you for pointing to your paper. If I understand correctly, you kill
*

*>all processes, from nuclear interactions to e-m transport. It seems to me
*

*>that the only MonteCarlo aspect that is tested is the stopping power
*

*>description, that does not depend on density (for non-relativistic
*

*>particles). Multiple (or single) scattering can have a role, and I doubt
*

*>that that "angle-dependent" quantities intrinsically violate the Fano
*

*>theorem.
*

*>But probably we can continue or discussion offline, not to spam the list.
*

*>Going to technical questions,
*

*>-CYLI-VOL gives a spatially uniform distribution in volume. If you need to
*

*>do by mass, I'm afraid you'll need to write your own user routine.
*

*>-definitely do NOT use Corrfact
*

*>-for best prcision, activate single scattering everywhere and all the
*

*>corrections with the MULSOPT card.
*

*>Ciao
*

*>Paola
*

*>> Dear Paola
*

*>>
*

*>> Sorry if I introduce myself in the conversation (I am co-supervising
*

*>> Anaâ€™s project). I just want to make sure we understand each other.
*

*>>There
*

*>> are basically 2 ways the Fano test can be done (in respect to Fanoâ€™s
*

*>> theorem). One way is using an external parallel beam, in which case the
*

*>> primary particles need to be â€œregenerated" at the site of primary
*

*>> interaction. For protons, this is not possible (due to CSDA) and
*

*>>therefore
*

*>> you need to create a virtual particle that triggers proton transport in
*

*>> the phantom (Sterpin et al, Med Phys 2014). The other way is simply to
*

*>> create a homogeneous source of particle, similarly to a radionuclide. In
*

*>> such source, particles are generally homogeneously (per unit mass) and
*

*>> they are sampled from angular and energy distributions which do not
*

*>>change
*

*>> throughout the phantom. Such test is more suitable for charged particles
*

*>> and this is what we want to use.
*

*>>
*

*>> So what Ana needs is :
*

*>>
*

*>> 1. A phantom with homogeneous atomic properties (cross sections,
*

*>>I-value,
*

*>> density effect parameter, etc.), but varying mass densities (her ion
*

*>> chamber setup will be overriden to water-property materials but keeping
*

*>> their original mass density). Thus, there must be a way to override the
*

*>> density effect parameter or any other density-dependent property.
*

*>>
*

*>> 2. A homogeneous source such that the number of particle per unit mass
*

*>> generated in the geometry is uniform in space.
*

*>>
*

*>> These 2 conditions allow Fanoâ€™s theorem to apply.
*

*>>
*

*>>
*

*>> Many thanks for your support!
*

*>>
*

*>> With best regards
*

*>> --
*

*>> Hugo Bouchard, PhD, MCCPM
*

*>> Professeur adjoint
*

*>> DÃ©partement de physique
*

*>> UniversitÃ© de MontrÃ©al
*

*>> Pavillon Roger-Gaudry bureau V-220
*

*>> TÃ©l: 514-343-6111 - ext. 34879
*

*>>
*

*>>
*

*>>
*

*>>
*

*>>
*

*>>
*

*>>
*

*>>
*

*>>
*

*>> On 2016-01-27, 2:19 AM, "Paola Sala" <paola.sala_at_mi.infn.it> wrote:
*

*>>
*

*>>>Dear Ana
*

*>>>
*

*>>>maybe I'm missing the context, but I do not think that the procedure you
*

*>>>mention is the correct one to simulate the Fano theorem.
*

*>>>
*

*>>>The Fano theorem is usually applied to the study of small cavities at
*

*>>>low
*

*>>>density ( like TEPC detectors) for dosimetry. The smallness ensures
*

*>>>that
*

*>>>the particle fluence is not perturbed by the cavity. To test this, the
*

*>>>"source" should be external, like a broad beam irradiation. The beam
*

*>>>should not be relativistic (density effects are present at relativistic
*

*>>>energies), The transport thresholds should be set at the same energy in
*

*>>>all the volumes, and low enough when compared to the detector dimensions
*

*>>>and density. The CORRFACT card shall NOT be used, non-relativistic cross
*

*>>>sections are already density independent.
*

*>>>
*

*>>>Ciao
*

*>>>Paola
*

*>>>
*

*>>>> Dear Fluka experts,
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>> I would like to test Fano theorem in FLUKA.
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>> ("Fano theorem states that under charged particle equilibrium
*

*>>>> conditions,
*

*>>>> the charged particle fluence is independent of the mass density of the
*

*>>>> media as long as the cross-sections are uniform." from Sterpin et al
*

*>>>> 2015)
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>> I have a few questions:
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>> 1- Will it be possible to simulate Fano theorem in FLUKA?
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>> 2- For that, I would have to simulate an uniform source per unit mass.
*

*>>>> What would be the best way to simulate this in FLUKA? I was planning
*

*>>>>to
*

*>>>> use a BEAMPOSit card with SDUM=CYLI-VOL. Will this simulate an uniform
*

*>>>> source per unit mass or volume?
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>> 3- Also, how can I be sure that the cross sections are independent of
*

*>>>> the
*

*>>>> density? Should I use the CORRFACT card?
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>> Many thanks,
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>> Ana
*

*>>>>
*

*>>>
*

*>>>
*

*>>>Paola Sala
*

*>>>INFN Milano
*

*>>>tel. Milano +39-0250317374
*

*>>>tel. CERN +41-227679148
*

*>>>
*

*>>
*

*>
*

*>
*

*>Paola Sala
*

*>INFN Milano
*

*>tel. Milano +39-0250317374
*

*>tel. CERN +41-227679148
*

*>
*

*>__________________________________________________________________________
*

*>You can manage unsubscription from this mailing list at
*

*>https://www.fluka.org/fluka.php?id¬c_info
*

*>
*

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Received on Mon Feb 01 2016 - 17:50:46 CET

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 15:36:16 +0000

Ola' Thiago,

Thank you very much for this. I will have a look into the files.

Best wishes,

Ana

________________________________________

De: Viana Miranda Lima, Thiago

Enviado: 1 de fevereiro de 2016 13:42

Para: Ferreira De Almeida Lourenco, Ana; Bouchard Hugo; paola.sala_at_mi.infn.it

Cc: fluka-discuss_at_fluka.org

Assunto: Re: [fluka-discuss]: Simulate Fano theorem in Fluka

Sorry I forgot to say, not only the presentation on the Wed but there are

also some other presentations about specific scenarios that may be useful.

Best wishes

Thiago

On 01/02/2016, 12:00, "owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it on behalf of

Ferreira De Almeida Lourenco, Ana" <owner-fluka-discuss_at_mi.infn.it on

behalf of am.lourenco_at_ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

__________________________________________________________________________

You can manage unsubscription from this mailing list at https://www.fluka.org/fluka.php?id¬c_info

Received on Mon Feb 01 2016 - 17:50:46 CET

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