Re: [fluka-discuss]: about self-shielding

From: babintsev <babintsev_at_ihep.ru>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 10:34:11 +0300

Dear Alfredo,
    thank you for the answer.... BUT I cannot fully understand it.

    Let me explain  my understanding for now about self-shielding problem:

    1) in the input cards :  W5.inp   and   W5sh.inp
                    I use LOW-PWXS cards,  and in both cases
                     in the FLUKA output I see lines :
        ............
  *** Pointwise cross sections activated for Xsec mat. #    7 TUNGSTEN   ***
  *** corresponding to the Fluka mat. #   23 TUNGSTEN ***
  *** decomposed into #    5 isotopes as following***

        Isotope #  1 id #  17 fraction: 0.3064
        activated from  1.00000E-14 GeV to  2.00000E-02 GeV, T = 296.00 K
        read from file: 741840-endfb8r0-296.pwx

        Isotope #  2 id #  18 fraction: 0.2843
        activated from  1.00000E-14 GeV to  2.00000E-02 GeV, T = 296.00 K
        read from file: 741860-endfb8r0-296.pwx

        Isotope #  3 id #  19 fraction: 0.2650
        activated from  1.00000E-14 GeV to  2.00000E-02 GeV, T = 296.00 K
        read from file: 741820-endfb8r0-296.pwx

        Isotope #  4 id #  20 fraction: 0.1431
        activated from  1.00000E-14 GeV to  2.00000E-02 GeV, T = 296.00 K
        read from file: 741830-endfb8r0-296.pwx

        Isotope #  5 id #  21 fraction: 0.0012
        activated from  1.00000E-14 GeV to  2.00000E-02 GeV, T = 296.00 K
        read from file: 741800-endfb8r0-296.pwx
         -------------------

          i.e. why I got the same results for both cases.
               and it means that FLUKA uses point-wise cross sections ...

   2) now in the manual I see lines :
      .....
      10.5.1 Resonances and self-shielding with pointwise cross sections

      Resolved resonances are obviously fully described in the pointwise
      cross sections, properly broadened at the given temperature.
      In the resolved resonance energy range self-shielding is
      automatically accounted for.
      ...........................

      so,  I see, that using  LOW-PWXS library all resonances in
          my E-region will be self-shielded corrected
          i.e why I got the same results for 2 input cards


   3) my understanding was:
       a) I see   2    W74  materials in the manual :       p.360
            W natural   and  W natural SelfShielded
          and my thought was - compare these 2 materials
           and I get self-shielding correction...

       b) now, if I got   your answer
          I have to compare 2 variants :
        - with LOW-PWXS  card
        - and with commented this card, i.e with group method, no point-wise
              and remove MAT definition for self-shielded material

          then I will get self-shielding correction

          ... otherwise it means that FLUKA cannot give this correction ?

       is it correct ?

  -------------------------

  thank you
  Vladimir



On 04.10.2023 16:53, alfredo.ferrari_at_mi.infn.it wrote:
> Dear Vladimir
>
> I assume you are using the group neutron cross section for W. If this is
> the case, only infinitely diluted (-> no self-shielding) or fully
> self-shielded cross sections are available (suitable for thick materials),
> and which one is used is left to the user choice through the LOW-MAT card.
>
> Viceversa, using pointwise cross sections (see the LOW-PWXS card), you can
> get whichever degree of self-shielding adapted to your problem (at the
> price of some extra CPU time). Please try with pointwise cross sections
> and let us know if it works as it should for you.
>
> Ciao
> Alfredo
>
>>  Dear experts,
>>  I am going to analyse W resonances using flow of neutrons
>>  after Wnat foil : 0.2 mm width.
>>  I want to define self-shielding corrections for this foil,
>>  using FLUKA.
>>
>>  For this I do small experiment:
>>  I analyze 2 W resonances for E-region : 2-9 eV (see fig-E-3-9-sigma.png)
>>                    -------------------
>>  I introduce E bins with E-step = 0.010 eV
>>  and for each Ebin I use rndm points with K= 1000 entries.
>>  Each neutron starts from X=0,
>>  Wnat foil is disposed at X=11 m
>>  N counter is disposed at X= 13 m (to be close to some experiments ...)
>>
>>  Each E-point is translated into T-points according to the expression:
>>
>>       T= 72.29 * L / sqrt(E),     (mks, m, eV)
>>
>>  replace air by VACUUM.
>>  FLUKA suggests 2 variants of Wnat : ordinary  and self-shielded, 300 K,
>>
>>  So, I run 2 jobs (2 cases) :
>>         a) no shield,             see W5.inp
>>                                                ------
>>         b) WITH self-shielded W :     W5sh.inp
>>                                                      ---------
>>   and use 5 cycles.
>>
>>  RESULTS
>>  ========
>>
>>  1) FLUKA *.out files does not show any comments about self-shielded mat.
>>        see fig-FLUKA-T.png  ,.... comparing 2 cases ===> no any
>> differences
>>                ---------------
>>
>>     it looks like that FLUKA uses the same input data for both cases
>>     ..... or I missed something in self-shielding definition ?
>>
>>  2) I fill also my own array for E, T data using C4 counter
>>
>>     look at the entries for E- T- distributions:
>>             fig-my-E-entry.png ,  fig-my-T-entry.png
>>                      ------------------    ------------------
>>
>>     ...there is no any difference for these 2 cases... why ?
>>
>>  3) Q: is it possible to define self-shielding resonance correction
>>         using FLUKA ?
>>
>>  4) Q: ..or I should use the expression for capture flow after the foil:
>> ?
>>
>>
>>           Ycap = ( 1 -exp(-n*d*SIGtot) ) * SIGcap/ SIGtot
>>
>>     where expression in brackets can be treated as self-shielding
>> correction,
>>
>>      SIGtot - total cross section
>>      SIGcap - capture cross section
>>      n - atoms density, according to FLUKA it is equal to
>>                6.3222E-02  ( at/(cm barn) )
>>      d = 0.02 cm
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>  thank you,
>>  sorry for the long e-mail
>>
>>  Vladimir
>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> You can manage unsubscription from this mailing list at https://www.fluka.org/fluka.php?id=acc_info

__________________________________________________________________________
You can manage unsubscription from this mailing list at https://www.fluka.org/fluka.php?id=acc_info
Received on Thu Oct 05 2023 - 11:33:43 CEST

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Thu Oct 05 2023 - 11:33:44 CEST