Re: [EXT] Re: [fluka-discuss]: Tungsten Characteristic X-Ray Discrepancy and Underestimation

From: Jean-Emmanuel Groetz <jegroetz_at_univ-fcomte.fr>
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 12:34:06 +0100

Dirk,

Unfortunately not, GEANT4 is the only code that I do not use, but there
is a physics list pointing to PENELOPE for electrons and photons.
Maybe I can try a little benchmarking with PHITS and PENELOPE.

A long time ago (11 years...), I posted a message to the MCNP forum,
concerning atomic relaxation and the calculation of X-ray transitions,
and how mcnp manages atomic relaxation. The main problem concerned the
EADL library which gave a slight shift for the energy of X-ray lines
related to experimental values.

Here is a part of this message

> In Penelope 2008, the energies of X rays in radiative transitions
> were taken from the recent compilation of Deslattes (Deslattes et al.
> X-ray transition energies: new approach to a comprehensive
> evaluation, Rev. Mod. Phys. 75, 35-99, 2003), where there is an
> improvement over available data.
> Here is an example for Kalpha1 and 2 for tungsten
> Interpreted ENDF file for relaxation-W-relax (MCNPX through mcplib04)
> Transitions to K level (1s1/2)
> Secondary Tertiary Transition Transition
> Subshell Subshell Energy(eV) Probability
> 3 (2p1/2) 0 5.81160E+04 2.76548E-01
> 4 (2p3/2) 0 5.94830E+04 4.80107E-01
>
> PENELOPE 2008
> probability Energy (eV)
> 1 3 0 2.76548000E-01 5.79818000E+04
> 1 4 0 4.80107000E-01 5.93188000E+04

I know that FLUKA manages the atomic relaxation better than MCNP
(MCNP6.2 ?), but I don't know which library is used (NIST points to
Deslattes et al.).

Jean-Emmanuel

-- 
_______________________________________________
Jean-Emmanuel Groetz
Laboratoire Chrono-Environnement UMR CNRS 6249
Université de Franche-Comté
16 route de Gray
25030 Besançon Cedex
France
mailto : jegroetz_at_univ-fcomte.fr
tel : +33 (0) 3 81 66 65 07
fax : +33 (0) 3 81 66 65 22
http://chrono-environnement.univ-fcomte.fr/spip.php?article1537
_______________________________________________
Le mardi 03 mars 2020 à 17:29 +0000, Bartkoski,Dirk Alan a écrit :
> Thank you for the recommendation. Are you familiar how Geant4
> compares to FLUKA in this regard?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jean-Emmanuel Groetz [mailto:jegroetz_at_univ-fcomte.fr] 
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 2:50 AM
> To: Bartkoski,Dirk Alan <DABartkoski_at_mdanderson.org>
> Subject: [EXT] Re: [fluka-discuss]: Tungsten Characteristic X-Ray
> Discrepancy and Underestimation
> 
> WARNING: This email originated from outside of MD Anderson. Please
> validate the sender's email address before clicking on links or
> attachments as they may not be safe.
> 
> Personal message
> 
> Dirk,
> 
> In my opinion, if you want to use a generalist code, you should use
> Penelope 2014 (2018 version should be available soon), which has a
> very good treatment of relaxation processes and also electron impact
> ionization. This is the most accurate code for X-ray fluorescence (K
> and L lines) compared to FLUKA or MCNP.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> Jean-Emmanuel
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Jean-Emmanuel Groetz
> Laboratoire Chrono-Environnement UMR CNRS 6249 Université de Franche-
> Comté
> 16 route de Gray
> 25030 Besançon Cedex
> France
> 
> mailto : jegroetz_at_univ-fcomte.fr
> tel : +33 (0) 3 81 66 65 07
> fax : +33 (0) 3 81 66 65 22
> http://chrono-environnement.univ-fcomte.fr/spip.php?article1537
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Le vendredi 07 février 2020 à 19:51 +0000, Bartkoski,Dirk Alan a
> écrit :
> > I have a simple 120 keV electron beam incident on a 50 um thick 
> > tungsten target of which I am measuring the energy spectrum of the 
> > forward scattering photons with an energy resolution of 0.1 keV. I 
> > expect to see a typical partial-transmission target spectrum with 
> > characteristic x-rays for Ka2 of 57.982 keV (NIST) in the 57.9-
> > 58.0 
> > keV bin and Ka1 of 59.319 keV (NIST) in the 59.3-59.4 keV bin.
> > However, I have peaks in the 58.1-58.2 keV bin and the 59.4-59.5
> > keV 
> > bin.
> >  
> > Is this discrepancy to be expected?
> >  
> > Secondly, upon researching the answer, I came across a few threads 
> > dating back to 2012 to as recent as 2019:
> >  
> > 
http://www.fluka.org/web_archive/earchive/new-fluka-discuss/5107.html
> > 
http://www.fluka.org/web_archive/earchive/new-fluka-discuss/8498.html
> > 
> 
> 
http://pcfluka.mi.infn.it/web_archive/earchive/new-fluka-discuss/13977.html
> >  
> > that indicate that FLUKA does not include characteristic x-rays
> > from 
> > direct electron impact ionization events and thereby
> > underestimates 
> > characteristic x-ray production. I saw nothing about this in the
> > FLUKA2020 release notes. Is there a plan to add this additional 
> > characteristic x-ray contribution in the near future
> >  
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > __________
> > Dirk A. Bartkoski, Ph.D.
> > Research Scientist | Division of Radiation Oncology
> > 
> > T. Boone Pickens Tower (FCT8.5007)
> > 1515 Holcombe Blvd.
> > Unit 1420
> > Houston, TX 77030
> > (713)794-5026
> >  
> > The information contained in this e-mail message may be
> > privileged, 
> > confidential, and/or protected from disclosure. This e-mail
> > message 
> > may contain protected health information (PHI); dissemination of
> > PHI 
> > should comply with applicable federal and state laws. If you are
> > not 
> > the intended recipient, or an authorized representative of the 
> > intended recipient, any further review, disclosure, use, 
> > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any 
> > attachment (or the information contained therein) is strictly 
> > prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message
> > in 
> > error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all 
> > references to it and its contents from your systems.
> 
> 
> The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged,
> confidential, and/or protected from disclosure. This e-mail message
> may contain protected health information (PHI); dissemination of PHI
> should comply with applicable federal and state laws. If you are not
> the intended recipient, or an authorized representative of the
> intended recipient, any further review, disclosure, use,
> dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any
> attachment (or the information contained therein) is strictly
> prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message
> in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all
> references to it and its contents from your systems.
__________________________________________________________________________
You can manage unsubscription from this mailing list at https://www.fluka.org/fluka.php?id=acc_info
Received on Wed Mar 04 2020 - 14:28:24 CET

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Wed Mar 04 2020 - 14:28:44 CET